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	<title>Comments on: Request for input: archiving and licensing software</title>
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	<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/</link>
	<description>Dryad updates and goings on</description>
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		<title>By: Brian O'Meara</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-522</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian O'Meara]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2011 05:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most software I see in the evolution domain has a GPL license -- probably due to inertia, but it&#039;s there, nonetheless. Some people might be able to figure out whether GPL code can go under a CC0 license, but most would just say, &quot;that&#039;s not my license, I can&#039;t do it.&quot; So I think allowing code, and just code, to be deposited under an OSI license makes sense.

As far as relying on software repositories, I think this is risky. What are the long term guarantees that they will stay up? Even if, say, sourceforge as a whole remains up, there&#039;s a chance that individual projects can die. I know both sourceforge and Google Code allow project names to be taken over by new projects [I&#039;ve actually done this, in one case]: they typically require evidence that the other project is dead and has little product, but that&#039;s a decision up to staff at each site. A project that consists of a few scripts done by a grad student who moves on to other things might have important code for our community but might not be seen as critically important by a sourceforge admin. 

I also think it&#039;s important to save the state of the code at the time of publication, rather than pointing to its current version. Software has bugs -- it&#039;s critical to be able to see if a paper&#039;s conclusions come from a bug in the software, and this is harder to do if we&#039;re just pointed to the current version (unless you start doing other add ons like requiring storing of commit numbers or other detailed info about the version of the software used in the paper).

A final point: software is a key ingredient to many studies, but it is ephemeral (for example, Mark Pagel&#039;s classic Continuous program is no longer available for download from his website, though its functions are in another program). It is thus important that software find a home in Dryad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most software I see in the evolution domain has a GPL license &#8212; probably due to inertia, but it&#8217;s there, nonetheless. Some people might be able to figure out whether GPL code can go under a CC0 license, but most would just say, &#8220;that&#8217;s not my license, I can&#8217;t do it.&#8221; So I think allowing code, and just code, to be deposited under an OSI license makes sense.</p>
<p>As far as relying on software repositories, I think this is risky. What are the long term guarantees that they will stay up? Even if, say, sourceforge as a whole remains up, there&#8217;s a chance that individual projects can die. I know both sourceforge and Google Code allow project names to be taken over by new projects [I've actually done this, in one case]: they typically require evidence that the other project is dead and has little product, but that&#8217;s a decision up to staff at each site. A project that consists of a few scripts done by a grad student who moves on to other things might have important code for our community but might not be seen as critically important by a sourceforge admin. </p>
<p>I also think it&#8217;s important to save the state of the code at the time of publication, rather than pointing to its current version. Software has bugs &#8212; it&#8217;s critical to be able to see if a paper&#8217;s conclusions come from a bug in the software, and this is harder to do if we&#8217;re just pointed to the current version (unless you start doing other add ons like requiring storing of commit numbers or other detailed info about the version of the software used in the paper).</p>
<p>A final point: software is a key ingredient to many studies, but it is ephemeral (for example, Mark Pagel&#8217;s classic Continuous program is no longer available for download from his website, though its functions are in another program). It is thus important that software find a home in Dryad.</p>
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		<title>By: mcpeek</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mcpeek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-477</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree that depositors should be required to divide content, and not have this done by Dryad.  This would be a huge amount of work for Dryad, but very little for depositors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that depositors should be required to divide content, and not have this done by Dryad.  This would be a huge amount of work for Dryad, but very little for depositors.</p>
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		<title>By: trashbird1240</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trashbird1240]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-475</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peter, thanks for bringing up the compatibility of CC0 and the GPL.  I also am confused.  Your code remains under your licensing terms.  When you release under a particular license, only that version that carries the license is released under those terms.  What this means is that when you release something into public domain, someone can proprietarize *that* version, while you go on developing your code under Apache or GPL.  The problem with this is that the proprietarizers can then develop modifications of your code, possibly patent it, and then sue you for making the same modifications in your GPL&#039;d version.  BIG BIG problem.

This raises another point that every file must contain a copyright notice, and replacing copyright notices for the GPL with those for CC0 or another license would be rather laborious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter, thanks for bringing up the compatibility of CC0 and the GPL.  I also am confused.  Your code remains under your licensing terms.  When you release under a particular license, only that version that carries the license is released under those terms.  What this means is that when you release something into public domain, someone can proprietarize *that* version, while you go on developing your code under Apache or GPL.  The problem with this is that the proprietarizers can then develop modifications of your code, possibly patent it, and then sue you for making the same modifications in your GPL&#8217;d version.  BIG BIG problem.</p>
<p>This raises another point that every file must contain a copyright notice, and replacing copyright notices for the GPL with those for CC0 or another license would be rather laborious.</p>
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		<title>By: trashbird1240</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trashbird1240]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was also thinking about linking to software hosting sites.  Github is certainly popular and usable, but it is not the only choice.  I think the best solution is for Dryad to host a snapshot of the code in archive form, as is typical for software source code distribution (as opposed to developer access), along with links to the developer access.  This avoids people having to use a particular version control system or a particular site.  If I were to use git for my projects, I would use gitorious or Savannah.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was also thinking about linking to software hosting sites.  Github is certainly popular and usable, but it is not the only choice.  I think the best solution is for Dryad to host a snapshot of the code in archive form, as is typical for software source code distribution (as opposed to developer access), along with links to the developer access.  This avoids people having to use a particular version control system or a particular site.  If I were to use git for my projects, I would use gitorious or Savannah.</p>
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		<title>By: trashbird1240</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trashbird1240]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ll add that Dryad may be taking on too much work in trying to make things easy for users.  That burden is really on the authors.  If authors want to make things easy or hard for users to figure out (distinguishing parts once they unpack a tarball, for instance), why should Dryad intercede on behalf of users?  Those users can always contact the authors.  I don&#039;t think that poorly understandable file names really constitutes &quot;non-transparency.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll add that Dryad may be taking on too much work in trying to make things easy for users.  That burden is really on the authors.  If authors want to make things easy or hard for users to figure out (distinguishing parts once they unpack a tarball, for instance), why should Dryad intercede on behalf of users?  Those users can always contact the authors.  I don&#8217;t think that poorly understandable file names really constitutes &#8220;non-transparency.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: trashbird1240</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[trashbird1240]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m glad Dryad is paying attention to this critical aspect, as I was hoping to bring it up at Evolution 2011.  The GPL is not &quot;viral&quot; contrary to the beliefs of many.  A single GPL&#039;d component of a set of software does not necessitate the entire collection being made available under the GPL: the presence of the GPL cannot change the licensing terms of another piece of software.  Most GNU/Linux distributions include both the Apache Web Server and the GNU Compiler Collection, and somehow Apache is still under the Apache license.  You need to consult GPL experts on this issue, such as Bradley Kuhn of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://sfconservancy.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Software Freedom Conservancy&lt;/a&gt;, the Free Software Foundation and the Software Freedom Law Center.  I also don&#039;t understand that statement that it&#039;s &quot;unusual to combine software from many different sources.&quot;  I do that all the time.  It&#039;s quite usual.

My solution is that authors should absolutely be allowed to keep their own licensing terms upon putting code in Dryad.  If they haven&#039;t thought of licensing terms, they should be encouraged to use the GPLv3 or the Apache license (which are compatible with each other).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad Dryad is paying attention to this critical aspect, as I was hoping to bring it up at Evolution 2011.  The GPL is not &#8220;viral&#8221; contrary to the beliefs of many.  A single GPL&#8217;d component of a set of software does not necessitate the entire collection being made available under the GPL: the presence of the GPL cannot change the licensing terms of another piece of software.  Most GNU/Linux distributions include both the Apache Web Server and the GNU Compiler Collection, and somehow Apache is still under the Apache license.  You need to consult GPL experts on this issue, such as Bradley Kuhn of the <a href="http://sfconservancy.org/" rel="nofollow">Software Freedom Conservancy</a>, the Free Software Foundation and the Software Freedom Law Center.  I also don&#8217;t understand that statement that it&#8217;s &#8220;unusual to combine software from many different sources.&#8221;  I do that all the time.  It&#8217;s quite usual.</p>
<p>My solution is that authors should absolutely be allowed to keep their own licensing terms upon putting code in Dryad.  If they haven&#8217;t thought of licensing terms, they should be encouraged to use the GPLv3 or the Apache license (which are compatible with each other).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Beerli</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter Beerli]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No answers here but more questions [I have certainly not read all documents, and therefore the below text may contain misconceptions]:

CC0 is rather restrictive and under this a license I surely would not put any of my code into DRYAD. I would prefer a more liberal system that allows to assign any of the opensource licenses that does not restrict the creator of the software so strongly [Note 3 from the cc0-faq mention that CC0 is compatible with GPL -- I fail to see how that could work].

If I create software and put it under CC0, but keep developing and refining the code, are these extension now under my own copyright or under CC0? How different has derivative work to be to not fall under the license anymore? GPL is rather clear on this, because it &quot;poisons&quot; all derivative work, but allows the original creator the right to assign different licenses, in contrast to CC0 that takes that right away.

Daniel mentions dedicated software repositories that allow a variety of opensource licenses. That sounds superficially very nice, but  I always wondered about the long-term perspective. Will github/sourceforge and the like  survive the next 20 years? For example, Sourceforge is owned by geeknet, a publicly traded company, if they go under, then what? Would we be OK of the library of congress is run by a private company?

In addition, sourceforge/github represent active projects, it would be nice to have a repository, like DRYAD, that can hold a particular snapshot of a software project. 

Peter Beerli]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No answers here but more questions [I have certainly not read all documents, and therefore the below text may contain misconceptions]:</p>
<p>CC0 is rather restrictive and under this a license I surely would not put any of my code into DRYAD. I would prefer a more liberal system that allows to assign any of the opensource licenses that does not restrict the creator of the software so strongly [Note 3 from the cc0-faq mention that CC0 is compatible with GPL -- I fail to see how that could work].</p>
<p>If I create software and put it under CC0, but keep developing and refining the code, are these extension now under my own copyright or under CC0? How different has derivative work to be to not fall under the license anymore? GPL is rather clear on this, because it &#8220;poisons&#8221; all derivative work, but allows the original creator the right to assign different licenses, in contrast to CC0 that takes that right away.</p>
<p>Daniel mentions dedicated software repositories that allow a variety of opensource licenses. That sounds superficially very nice, but  I always wondered about the long-term perspective. Will github/sourceforge and the like  survive the next 20 years? For example, Sourceforge is owned by geeknet, a publicly traded company, if they go under, then what? Would we be OK of the library of congress is run by a private company?</p>
<p>In addition, sourceforge/github represent active projects, it would be nice to have a repository, like DRYAD, that can hold a particular snapshot of a software project. </p>
<p>Peter Beerli</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Chamberlain</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Chamberlain]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 03:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there some way for Dryad to connect with a site that hosts code, ideally Github? I ask because they have a great system for writing code collaboratively, and lots of people use it that are developing code for software. Would this only work if the code was for open source software, like R, Python, etc. (instead of e.g., SAS)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there some way for Dryad to connect with a site that hosts code, ideally Github? I ask because they have a great system for writing code collaboratively, and lots of people use it that are developing code for software. Would this only work if the code was for open source software, like R, Python, etc. (instead of e.g., SAS)?</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Mietchen</title>
		<link>http://blog.datadryad.org/2011/06/19/request-for-input-archiving-and-licensing-software/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Mietchen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 02:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.datadryad.org/?p=928#comment-469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it would be best for DRYAD to stick to CC0. Allowing a wider variation of licenses at DRYAD could lead to the kind  of confusion that you are striving to avoid, e.g. of the licensing of  data and code being mixed up. 

Software in general is probably better hosted in dedicated software repositories, provided they meet some basic long-term preservation criteria. These also typically allow for a wide variety of licenses. The DRYAD entry and/ or the paper describing it could then link there. 

If the authors want a DOI for their code, they can choose between putting it under CC0 at DRYAD and submitting it to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.openresearchcomputation.com/authors/instructions/software&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dedicated&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ploscompbiol.org/static/guidelines.action#software&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;journals&lt;/a&gt;. 

As for supplementary materials, I think CC0 would be an appropriate default, but allowing CC-BY is probably necessary as long as journals have not &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.isitopendata.org/enquiry/list/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;clarified&lt;/a&gt; their policies in this regard.

As a sidenote, I think it would help if you would add a preview option and/ or a list of allowed HTML tags.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it would be best for DRYAD to stick to CC0. Allowing a wider variation of licenses at DRYAD could lead to the kind  of confusion that you are striving to avoid, e.g. of the licensing of  data and code being mixed up. </p>
<p>Software in general is probably better hosted in dedicated software repositories, provided they meet some basic long-term preservation criteria. These also typically allow for a wide variety of licenses. The DRYAD entry and/ or the paper describing it could then link there. </p>
<p>If the authors want a DOI for their code, they can choose between putting it under CC0 at DRYAD and submitting it to <a href="http://www.openresearchcomputation.com/authors/instructions/software" rel="nofollow">dedicated</a> <a href="http://www.ploscompbiol.org/static/guidelines.action#software" rel="nofollow">journals</a>. </p>
<p>As for supplementary materials, I think CC0 would be an appropriate default, but allowing CC-BY is probably necessary as long as journals have not <a href="http://www.isitopendata.org/enquiry/list/" rel="nofollow">clarified</a> their policies in this regard.</p>
<p>As a sidenote, I think it would help if you would add a preview option and/ or a list of allowed HTML tags.</p>
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